Buck Joffrey on What Rich People Do Differently With Their Money

Buck Joffrey: [00:00:00] it was like a guy who already was making 5, 600 grand a year as you [00:00:05] know early young doctor was trying to figure out what do I do with this [00:00:10] next? As opposed to like how do I get out of my how do I get out of my 9:00 to 5:00? That's not [00:00:15] what I was trying to do right? I wanted to know the tricks of the trade and I wanted to know what the [00:00:20] secrets were. And so they weren't talking to me so I started my own podcast. ​ George Wright III: [00:00:25] [00:00:30] Okay guys. Welcome back to The Daily [00:00:35] Mastermind. George Wright III with your daily dose of inspiration, motivation, and education. I'm [00:00:40] really excited today because we're gonna bring you a little bit of wealth and I've got a neurosurgeon [00:00:45] turned entrepreneur success Buck Joffrey on the show today. Buck how are you doing? Buck Joffrey: [00:00:50] Good. How are you? George Wright III: I'm good. I'm good. We had a chance to talk a little bit before so I'll make sure people understand who you are. [00:00:55] But guys if you're listening to this podcast make sure that you do me a favor and follow. [00:01:00] We have some really cool stuff coming out. We've got the brand-new Prosperity Report newsletter on [00:01:05] the weekly. We've got some great interviews coming up with Stephen M. R. Covey and several other bestselling [00:01:10] authors. As many of you know I get hundreds of requests a week for the show and I kind of filter through these. But the reason I brought [00:01:15] on Buck Joffrey is he's got a very unique story and so I'm gonna give Buck I'm gonna give everybody a [00:01:20] little bit of your background. This gentleman on the show today is a former neurosurgeon turned entrepreneur real estate [00:01:25] investor and financial educator. He's been involved with more than two billion in real estate transactions. He's [00:01:30] built multiple businesses himself. He's the host of the Wealth Formula podcast where he [00:01:35] helps high-income professionals really rethink their traditional approach to wealth [00:01:40] building. Author of Seven Secrets of Eternal Wealth and creator of the Mathematical Wealth Formula. A lot of [00:01:45] great information here. So Buck if you would do me a favor it's probably the biggest question I [00:01:50] had. What made you move from being a neurosurgeon to a full-time [00:01:55] investor and entrepreneur? Buck Joffrey: So there was one more step. I went from neuro to, [00:02:00] plastics. George Wright III: Okay. Well yeah maybe you give me that too 'cause there's a that's still not a bridge that I [00:02:05] would expect. So tell me what happened there Buck Joffrey: I mean when I was in med school I was just a [00:02:10] hardcore academic kinda guy and really interested. But then and so I got into neurosurgery one of the top [00:02:15] programs in the country at Michigan and I spent a couple years there and realized I [00:02:20] love this brain stuff. I love everything about it for the fact except for the fact that I don't ever sleep [00:02:25] anymore. And I looked at like my professors right? Michigan was great but most of the [00:02:30] places when I went to med school at Northwestern they had over 100% divorce rate and they would [00:02:35] compensate by having 10 kids and that kind of thing. I didn't really see myself in that kind of [00:02:40] life forever. So I knew that if I went down the hole of cosmetics and that no one needs an [00:02:45] emergency facelift in the middle of the night. So that's the direction I ultimately went and [00:02:50] became less academic and more entrepreneurial and that was the route for that. George Wright III: But you come with a [00:02:55] background and I'm curious 'cause your background of detail I mean to be a neurosurgeon obviously and [00:03:00] even in that area it's something that had you thinking a certain way. And I believe obviously I don't know [00:03:05] if there's parallels that you have in your investing now that you pulled from your previous career or [00:03:10] whether that equipped you differently or is it just a different world for you now? Buck Joffrey: It is a different world. I think there are a [00:03:15] lot of parallels in all this stuff right? In order to go to medical school they take make you take organic [00:03:20] chemistry is not because it has anything to do with anything in that you're gonna deal with in medicine but it's a way of [00:03:25] thinking. And being able to solve puzzles and solve [00:03:30] problems I actually see not necessarily with the clinical medicine stuff but with a lot of the research side of [00:03:35] the things I was doing that type of thinking I think is significantly parallel with [00:03:40] entrepreneurship because you're really trying to think about like solutions to problems. [00:03:45] And so I do see a big parallel there George Wright III: You got started in investing. You're doing a lot of [00:03:50] education now. You're working with a lot of people but you talk about this mathematical wealth formula. That's one of the things that I really [00:03:55] wanted to have you help us understand. What's the core principle behind that and does it define [00:04:00] your approach to investing? Buck Joffrey: it's really simple and I think the reason I [00:04:05] bring it up is just like you know business people professionals just don't think [00:04:10] about money period right? And so put it in an equation and maybe you'll get some attention from [00:04:15] people right? But you know it's it's just that, uh... And you know I'm sort of ripping off [00:04:20] Isaac Newton in the way it's framed. But wealth growth is really simple right? If you did [00:04:25] take mass meaning actually how much you invest right? And [00:04:30] then it's a product of that velocity which is how quickly you get your money [00:04:35] back. And then it's leverage right? Now leverage is a tricky thing [00:04:40] but it is something that can create inordinate levels [00:04:45] of wealth compared to not using leverage. Although as Charlie Munger said [00:04:50] leverage is tricky because what did he say? There are three things that make a [00:04:55] smart man broke and it was liquor leverage George Wright III: Yeah, exactly. So true. Yeah. Buck Joffrey: [00:05:00] And liquor, leverage, and ladies. But the most important concept here to me and this is really important is [00:05:05] that I think especially with entrepreneurs we get so fixated [00:05:10] on our own businesses that we don't think about money as a separate entity from our [00:05:15] own business. So entrepreneurs successful entrepreneurs are some of the worst investors out [00:05:20] there and the reason is that what got us here is a lot of risk-taking and a lot of [00:05:25] like crazy stuff that we did right? So when you look at investing it's different. It's a different [00:05:30] concept right? Like now probably the biggest thing is getting your money in there. So instead of [00:05:35] dumping every penny you got into your own business and creating a situation where if that fails you have no [00:05:40] money you're actually creating a second business with your money. And trying to get money in there as [00:05:45] soon as possible is really important. And now I'm 52 and I realize that more than ever [00:05:50] now. There's things that I go back and I think Gosh if I'd just had just stopped putting more money into my [00:05:55] business maybe put a little bit here it would've been fantastic right? But I didn't do that. [00:06:00] So that along with understanding there's more to investing than [00:06:05] simply giving it to a wealth advisor. Because this is another business for [00:06:10] you. I mean as an entrepreneur would you just take somebody who you [00:06:15] have no idea how good they are how smart they are whatever would you just give them the [00:06:20] reins on that business and say Hey you go do it. Uh I I'm not gonna I'm not gonna look? George Wright III: [00:06:25] Yeah it's pretty ironic because not only would you not do that with a business but um it's it's [00:06:30] ironic to me that there are people that literally that's their profession. Like let me [00:06:35] start a business for you and I'll just manage your money and you won't even check on it. Buck Joffrey: [00:06:40] Exactly. And the remarkable thing about that and I know this from being under the trunk on [00:06:45] that side of the business is that side of the business is so cookie cutter [00:06:50] right? I mean essentially they're just gonna put you in various mutual funds you know just like [00:06:55] you could have this here this here and this there. I mean if you wanna do it that way fine. You can do [00:07:00] it yourself. I mean that's just crazy to have these huge fees on top of [00:07:05] it to do that. Of course my I advocate for a little bit more sophisticated [00:07:10] approach which includes alternative assets like real estate and other things like that. [00:07:15] A lot of that is because of tax plays and the use of leverage. So George Wright III: Yeah it's interesting [00:07:20] to me because it's a real catch-22 scenario. A lot of professionals don't have [00:07:25] time so they're like I want to be able to put my money somewhere that it will work for me and I don't have to [00:07:30] manage it and yet I want it to grow but I'm not willing to put the focus and time on it. So they want a little bit of [00:07:35] leverage but they don't want the responsibility but their expectation is high. [00:07:40] So I get it like especially you know whether... I like the framework by the way of looking at [00:07:45] it like another business especially if you're an entrepreneur or business person cause now it it shifts how [00:07:50] you look at it manage it grow it devote time to it which I think [00:07:55] everyone should with money. And so you work with a lot of professionals meaning individuals that [00:08:00] maybe get very high rate of return on their time. You know maybe they don't have a lot of [00:08:05] residual compared to that but they might have a book of business or they might have a clientele. But where do you [00:08:10] start with individuals like that if they wanna start building income outside of their profession? [00:08:15] Maybe they have had a traditional money manager or somebody. Where do you recommend that they start [00:08:20] when they don't have any time? Buck Joffrey: Gosh I mean it depends because everybody's situation is very different. [00:08:25] But let me just give you an example. I had one guy who emailed me and said this [00:08:30] You know I make seven hundred grand. It's all W2 income. I listen to your [00:08:35] show. I'm not sure what there is that I can actually do. So a big [00:08:40] component again going back to the business model going back to the framework of looking at this as a [00:08:45] business is with regard to your investments you have money [00:08:50] coming in you have money coming out. The biggest thing that's coming out is taxes George Wright III: Mm-hmm. Buck Joffrey: right? [00:08:55] So my first focus a lot of times is do you realize there are really [00:09:00] some options for some real tax benefits? So and this guy you know he's a [00:09:05] full-time urologist and he didn't have time to go out there and any desire to [00:09:10] go out there and be a landlord or something like that. However there are ways to get around [00:09:15] that. And one of the things that we talked about is he had an interest in buying a [00:09:20] vacation house for his family. So we talked about Well why don't you do [00:09:25] this? Why don't you buy one and then put it out there as a vacation rental long-term vacation [00:09:30] rental? Now that's not just because you get some money out of it. But [00:09:35] interestingly enough what happens is the way that the laws are set up for long-term [00:09:40] rentals, you can do various types of engineering studies [00:09:45] called cost segregation studies, and then you can use some of the Trump tax laws, [00:09:50] where essentially say you put you know thirty percent down [00:09:55] on a million dollar property you could [00:10:00] essentially take a write-off for that full thirty percent against your W2 income. So [00:10:05] essentially you're having the government buy you a house for rental. Now so [00:10:10] that in itself is the huge benefit. Of course he's gonna get a tax he's gonna get [00:10:15] residual income from that as well. But so I don't think it's a focus of simply going in [00:10:20] there and saying How do I increase my returns? Just like in a business you make [00:10:25] money you spend money and what the difference is is your delta is your profit. And [00:10:30] taxes is something that almost no one really pays attention to and there's a lot of room [00:10:35] for George Wright III: Yeah that's a huge part of strategy for most wealth builders. And it's interesting I don't wanna [00:10:40] say it's easy but it's definitely simple things that you can do if you have the right connections and clearly it [00:10:45] is for you as well but tax strategy tax planning is such a critical [00:10:50] aspect especially if you are paying a lot in taxes. That's one of the simplest ways [00:10:55] to be able to put money right back in, and then you take the compounding effect into play and it's lights out. [00:11:00] So what do you think 'cause you're working with a lot of people right now what do you think are the biggest traps that people have [00:11:05] that are keeping them dependent on their career and not prioritizing? 'Cause when you ask [00:11:10] most professionals, they're saying I need to get something outside what I'm doing. I need to leverage my [00:11:15] time. I need to grow wealth but they don't do it. What is it what's holding them back? Buck Joffrey: Well I think it's [00:11:20] like you remember that a lot of these people who are professionals and highly [00:11:25] specialized were really good students, right? You mentioned Robert Kiyosaki offline. I've met [00:11:30] Robert multiple times and had great conversations with him. And he has that book called a [00:11:35] Students Work for C Students and B Students Work for the Government right? And I said, "Robert, you know why A [00:11:40] students, work for C students? It's because A students had everything [00:11:45] in the world to lose in school because they were great there. C students had nothing to [00:11:50] lose, and so those C students were the ones who became entrepreneurs and hit it big right? [00:11:55] So bottom line George Wright III: is the golden handcuffs, right? Part of it is just the fact that you [00:12:00] have it Buck Joffrey: Yeah I mean think about it like if you had nothing but [00:12:05] success in school and you have nothing but success and everybody's lauding you and telling you how [00:12:10] great you are, and the path that you took is basically a curriculum. That's the [00:12:15] only thing you're gonna stick to. You're not gonna go outside of curriculum right? So now [00:12:20] investing and what is the curriculum that high-paid professionals get for [00:12:25] education? There's none. It's basically just make sure you hand it over to a responsible [00:12:30] wealth advisor right? And I don't know who wrote that script but it's George Wright III: [00:12:35] Yeah. Buck Joffrey: tells me it's the wealth advisors. George Wright III: there, right? Hand it over to me, I'll [00:12:40] run it for you no worries. And because they've got a name plaque or whatever with a company I think you know [00:12:45] people are a little more skeptical now. But even like we talked about before the show there's so much more education and [00:12:50] information out there right now. I don't even think it's education as much [00:12:55] as being around professionals that you know like like yourself you've got 2 [00:13:00] billion in real estate transactions taught a lot of lessons there a lot of lot of [00:13:05] Buck Joffrey: Oh yeah George Wright III: and and things that have happened, right? So what do you generally have as [00:13:10] a kind of a core curriculum or strategy as you start to work with individuals where's your [00:13:15] primary focus right now with wealth building long term? Buck Joffrey: that's where [00:13:20] macro comes in macroeconomics and also understanding where each market [00:13:25] is at right? Um George Wright III: In your podcast by the way I just kinda mention for our [00:13:30] listeners you really do focus on a lot of the macroeconomics and it's not [00:13:35] just education on wealth investing because you feel that the macroeconomics are [00:13:40] what drive the rest of the equation. Buck Joffrey: 100%. 100%. Like the goal for me is [00:13:45] listen the goal for me is to look at what's happening in [00:13:50] macro and then relate it back to the markets the different markets and [00:13:55] then trying to use that to project out what happens next right? So if you look at [00:14:00] so right now if you look at the way what's going on in [00:14:05] macro you have a relatively high interest rate environment. And even though this Iran thing [00:14:10] is really making things difficult the long-term trajectory for interest [00:14:15] rates and I just say long-term I'll say the next three to four years is [00:14:20] likely rates coming down. And the reason for that is that rates are gonna follow [00:14:25] inflation right? And inflation right now is higher because of the whole oil [00:14:30] crisis. If you look at core CPI which takes out energy and stuff it's [00:14:35] dropped. It's down to like 2.4% which is pretty close to what the Fed is looking for at 2% anyway. [00:14:40] There's this big thing in the room called artificial intelligence that is [00:14:45] gonna make everything massively more productive and it's enormous deflationary [00:14:50] force over the next few years. And so to me over the next few [00:14:55] years and I'm saying again three to four years we're looking in my opinion at rates coming down. But I don't think they're [00:15:00] gonna come down to like 0% like they were before but I think they're gonna come down. [00:15:05] So how does that matter? Okay. Well market-wise the stock market [00:15:10] is pretty hot right now. I'm not saying it's probably is a bubble, but the bubble is [00:15:15] probably gonna last, you George Wright III: Yeah, Buck Joffrey: So it just depends. You're playing a little bit of [00:15:20] musical chairs there, but I don't blame anybody for jumping in and riding it for the [00:15:25] next few years 'cause I don't think it's going anywhere right? But one of the things [00:15:30] about investors that do really really well is they try to look around and [00:15:35] say What's on sale? George Wright III: Yeah. Yeah yeah Buck Joffrey: [00:15:40] Yeah. And real estate took an absolute beating in the [00:15:45] last four or five years because of rates going up so quickly and real estate being [00:15:50] based so heavily on interest rates. Just for perspective we just closed on [00:15:55] a apartment building in Dallas at 50% of what it was acquired [00:16:00] for back in 2021. 50% and we're [00:16:05] talking about you know a $45 million asset. So, George Wright III: [00:16:10] Yeah, so timing and economics in different markets as well as around the world I mean it's all [00:16:15] driving a lot of this Buck Joffrey: Yeah, 100%. And now if you look at it you're like real [00:16:20] estate is the red-headed stepchild right? But That's a good thing for an [00:16:25] investor to George Wright III: Yeah, exactly. Yeah Buck Joffrey: Great. But the herd mentality is never gonna lead you there, [00:16:30] right? It's only if you really understand the big picture and you say [00:16:35] The next three or four years probably rates are gonna come down and real estate right now [00:16:40] is just taking a beating and it's massively discounted and it [00:16:45] is heavily rate-dependent. I should probably focus on there. So that's one of the big things we're [00:16:50] focusing on. An alternative we talked about that we also had an airline fund, [00:16:55] right? And it did extremely well. And right now though we [00:17:00] exited because there's massive amounts of froth in that market believe it or not. I don't know why but there's a massive amount [00:17:05] of froth. And we're not gonna do that for a while. It was great but we just don't think we're gonna [00:17:10] be able to get the same money. We're not gonna be able to make George Wright III: Understanding those little trends, that's [00:17:15] important as well. I also wanted to ask you about um so your book, Seven Secrets [00:17:20] of Eternal Wealth what are those Can you break those down for us? Buck Joffrey: Yeah. I mean I'll [00:17:25] just you know give you a broad overview which is I'm a Robert Kiyosaki inspired guy and his books are so [00:17:30] simplistic but then all of a sudden somehow there's always a aha moment, right? [00:17:35] So a lot of my stuff is, my concepts are simply about investing in assets that you [00:17:40] can you know see feel touch. Investing in things that cash [00:17:45] flow, investing in things that people need AI is a huge force. What do people need? Well [00:17:50] they still need to live somewhere. Self-storage is a good one. I mean listen why? People need to put their [00:17:55] stuff somewhere you know. So it's just more basic concepts along that line. It's [00:18:00] definitely not like a super sophisticated manual, George Wright III: You know it's interesting though, when it comes to timeless [00:18:05] principles and success principles you know over the years last 30 35 years I mean I've been [00:18:10] fortunate enough and I don't say it to ever impress anybody I just say it to impress upon people that I've been [00:18:15] around and in the rooms with individuals and the way they think and how they think is probably [00:18:20] more important than the things they think. But it always comes back to very simple [00:18:25] overall principles like you said stuff you can touch and feel trends you can see. [00:18:30] But I think having the conversations which is one of the reasons I like your podcast is [00:18:35] having the conversations about what's happening, it gets you thinking it gets you moving forward in the direction of [00:18:40] what am I noticing? If you can change how you think when you change the way you look [00:18:45] at things the things you look at change. And so you you see opportunities in in down markets. You see [00:18:50] you know things like that. Um i'm curious why you decided to do a podcast. Was it just... [00:18:55] Was it a marketing play? Was it conversations? Did you do it for you? Buck Joffrey: I started [00:19:00] podcasting, I think in 2014 or '15 and it was before people were podcasting very [00:19:05] much. I did it initially 'cause I was a podcast listener. And I finished my training around 2009 [00:19:10] and '10 and started buying some real estate on my own and really was looking for some education [00:19:15] and trying to understand what to do. And I was making a lot of money just even in medicine [00:19:20] at that point as a cosmetic surgeon. And came from a real estate family. [00:19:25] My dad's not like a real estate mogul but He was like a scrappy guy. Bought a [00:19:30] lot of duplexes and all that kind of stuff right? That's how I grew up. So I was looking at buying [00:19:35] buildings but I also wanted an education on what is it that like these rich people do [00:19:40] that's different from what I'm being told to do? 'Cause I know they do stuff differently. I know they pay less [00:19:45] taxes. I George Wright III: Yeah, for sure Buck Joffrey: I know they're compounding at a faster rate than every... [00:19:50] So I started listening to podcasts and I learned a lot but the problem is [00:19:55] there wasn't any podcast that spoke to me. George Wright III: Mm-hmm. Buck Joffrey: And when I say to me [00:20:00] it was like a guy who already was making 5 600 grand a year as you know [00:20:05] early young doctor and was trying to figure [00:20:10] out what do I do with this next? As opposed to like how do I get out of my how do I get out of my [00:20:15] 9:00 to 5:00? That's not what I was trying to do right? I just wanted to know how to... I wanted to know [00:20:20] the tricks of the trade and I wanted to know what the secrets were. And so they [00:20:25] weren't talking to me so I started my own podcast. And then that became something that I think a lot [00:20:30] of people started to follow. I was buying real estate and It occurred to me from talking to some [00:20:35] folks that there's a lot of people who wanted to invest in real estate but didn't have time and that's when I [00:20:40] started my investor group. And so instead of buying you know eight [00:20:45] units or 15 units in Chicago we started buying 300 units in Dallas or [00:20:50] 400 units George Wright III: How cool is that? It's interesting how podca And the reason I ask you that is I you know I started [00:20:55] the Daily Mastermind as a daily ritual for myself. Motivation inspiration consistency and [00:21:00] the amount of contacts and connections and things I've found along the way speaking. I mean Franklin Planner asked me to [00:21:05] be their co-host. Like these things just come by default but it wasn't my intention and I think it comes back to [00:21:10] proximity of people that you want to think like and emulate and learn [00:21:15] from and grow together. And with your investor group now you're making some major major changes. [00:21:20] So anyway I appreciate you mentioning that I appreciate you coming on the show. I look forward to these conversations and I [00:21:25] think people always like you said they glean these little aha moments from [00:21:30] sometimes the simplest conversations and that's why we do them and that's all that matters. That's the impact we make. [00:21:35] Is there any before we take off here If you were gonna give one piece of advice to someone who [00:21:40] is a entrepreneur, founder business owner professional that is looking to kinda [00:21:45] get a little bit more of a proactive approach to building long-term wealth what would be your [00:21:50] advice? Buck Joffrey: Yeah I think I think we hit it on it before which is the the [00:21:55] framework of looking at your personal finances as a business that [00:22:00] you own, that you run, and taking personal responsibility for that. [00:22:05] That to me is the number one thing. I mean, y- y- George Wright III: I love Buck Joffrey: you [00:22:10] take nothing else from what I'm saying, I think that's the biggest thing George Wright III: I love it, and I think that [00:22:15] principle extends to a lot of things in your life if you're listening to this. In other words, don't [00:22:20] dabble. , Go deep. How you do anything is how you do everything so if you're gonna do something you're gonna invest [00:22:25] treat it like a business. Treat it like... And that perspective I love it. I actually haven't heard that before. I've [00:22:30] heard a lot of things but I love the perspective 'cause I'm an entrepreneur too. As a serial entrepreneur. So [00:22:35] Buck I appreciate you being with us on the show, man. I look forward to more conversations. And if you're listening to [00:22:40] this I want you to do me a favor and share this show and give me some feedback. Let me know what you're dealing [00:22:45] with what you're working on what you're struggling with but also the wins that you have. I wanna get that feedback. You can hit [00:22:50] me up at dailymastermind.com. And we look for feedback. Like I said and I end most of the [00:22:55] shows this way, it is never too... It doesn't matter where you're at. If you have been investing, you haven't, you've had success, [00:23:00] downtime, up, whatever, it's never too late to start creating that life you were meant to live. The, [00:23:05] your best life, the one that is giving you your time and your freedom, but you've [00:23:10] got to be intentional. And so if you do that, you treat it like a business like Buck said, I think you'll [00:23:15] see some results. So thank you so much for being with us. I look forward to talking with you more. Once again this is George Wright [00:23:20] III with Buck Joffrey on The Daily Mastermind. ​[00:23:25] [00:23:30] [00:23:35] [00:23:40]